I interviewed Aaron Douglas and Tahmoh Penikett at DragonCon in Atlanta over Labor Day weekend at the fabu Trader Vic's over some Mai-Tais and something called a Blue Hawaiian. I looked for Elvis, but instead I got a fascinating conversation with two of BSG's stars, and some insight into what makes them tick. Without further ado, here we go...

Grendy - How are you dealing with, or noting the changes in the fans of the show, in between seasons 1 and 2?

Tahmoh - in England the first season aired, it was still to a really small audience. And now here, you'd never really see people all dressed up like that before here, and I've seen everyone, even from the old shows. They're even in the flight suits that they've invented and with helmets.

Grendy - Yeah, I know, (at DragonCon) I've probably seen about 10 Starbucks, a number of folks in the blue uniforms and a couple of burly guy-types in halfway wearing orange jumpers with the requisite two-tank tops look. They even sported the dog tags.

Tahmoh - …And that stuff takes a lot of work, 'cause our stuff's pretty fancy in the show.

Grendy - You can find some things online, but not most of this stuff.

Tahmoh - Exactly. We just had one woman approach us, and said she's been making a lot of gear for people, and that she'd not even seen the show. I said "You better get on it!" (smile)…and she's been overwhelmed with requests for BSG gear.

Grendy - I saw some nice Starbucks, and a rally good Roslin yesterday. Though with that all you need pretty much is a blue suit and a red wig and glasses. She (the woman dressed as Roslin) got to meet Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh) and was all geekin' out over it.

Okay, on to the questions:

Aaron, since it's known you're a fan of the original show, are you still as geeked out about it, not that you're two seasons in, and the third's about to start?

Aaron - I really still love it for what it is. And I literally do, often times, probably more then I should, sit and reflect and go "I'm the Chief" it's a remarkable thing to me. When it first started I kinda wondered… does LeVar Burton go "I'm Geordie"? that's pretty cool. I'll go down in history as The Chief. I mean there are police detectives and chiefs, but in these people's lives, for the rest of my life, I'll be the Chief. And I think that's a remarkable thing, and it's flattering and an honour and I am pleased about it. (Canadian spelling in deference to the fellas).

Grendy - Do you like that Helo became such a fan favorite (his fans in the miniseries made it known that they liked him, so Moore et all brought him back for the series despite his being left to face nuclear holocaust, thus changing the whole storyline of the show) I mean, did you have to leave a job in order to start season 1?

Tahmoh - I knew when I was in the miniseries that I would be dying. I'd accepted that. I die, you know? I didn't get to do too many scenes with the other actors. When I read the script I said wow… when I read the script, and I got to the part where I tell Sharon to leave me on the planet…

Grendy - The big sacrifice

Tahmoh - Yeah, the big sacrifice. I said wow, I gotta have this. It's mine. But the door was closed for me. (after that, as he'd been left on-planet) I got a lot of nice compliments in the end. "I really liked your work." etc… But the thing about this business is you don't put any weight on that until you have your contract. And even then, a couple of days in, then you can start celebrating the fact that you're there. The reality of it.

I had gone on after the miniseries and gotten a regular supporting lead on Cold Squad. It was huge, and I was really excited about it. So it finished, and I was in LA for pilot season. Funny story: I was in LA for pilot season. I had a terrible audition. One of the worst of my life, and the casting director was a complete dick. And I was going: I can't believe I've been getting away with this for so long, because I can't act. I've been pulling a fast one over everyone, it's horrible. And I get home and get a call from the executive director of Cold Squad and it's like "Sorry buddy, we're done." as the show had been cancelled. The only thing that made me happy when I had that bad audition was 'well, at least I have Cold Squad' and it was a week later that Ron Moore called me up and said he's got an idea for the storyline. So I am a very lucky guy.

Aaron pipes up with "Cold Squad is the original show that Cold Case ripped off. Just wanted to point that out. (insert tone of Canadian pride here)

Grendy - Well, we Americans steal everything.

Aaron - And they won't admit it!

Tahmoh - and since it's about a police unit that's been doing these cases since the 40's it's appropriate that it's set in Vancouver.

Grendy - are you from Vancouver ?

Tahmoh - well I've lived there on and off for about 10 years, but I am from the Yukon. Born and raised Yukon boy. If you know where that is.

Grendy - I do. I am not an American with bad geography skills. It's west of Edmonton, east of Alaska

Tahmoh - Yep. (slightly surprised)

Grendy - I told you, I know my geography. Aaron, do you think, despite all the protestations of the chief, that he might be a cylon? An outside chance? Similar to Dean Stockwell?

Or do you just think, no way…

Aaron - is the chief a cylon? No, the chief is NOT a cylon.

Grendy - That's good, 'cause that would be lame. Oh, Sharon 's a cylon and I am a cylon and we both didn't know it.

Aaron - I'd be pissed. I would stake an episode-fee on it. He's not a cylon.

Grendy - as people, or characters do you think anyone else is one?

Aaron - (super fast answer) No one is. It is my belief that we've seen all the Cylons that we're gonna see.

Grendy - What about that black male doctor on Caprice? He was an 'outsider'?

Aaron - I think all the cylons have been revealed. There are 12, but what you'll find out in season 3... …cylon models get what you call "boxed".

Grendy - Like retired?

Aaron - No, they just turn them off. They take every single copy of that model number and put them in a box and turn them off. You can turn them back on… but they get boxed. One of the cylon models gets boxed in this year.

Grendy - Very cool. (inside my head I am figuring odds on who it might be)

Aaron - The four or five remaining models that you haven't seen; they've been boxed. I think that they've been boxed.

Grendy - Yeah, if you reveal two or three a season, after a few seasons, you're done, no more to show. And no where to go.

Aaron - See, the thing for me, you've seen all these scenes on the cylon ships, or the gatherings of them and you've only seen these specific characters, so if you suddenly introduced a Chinese guy, you'd be …'Where the hell has he been?' If there are millions of copies of this model where has he been? You've seen 20 copies of Dorils, and 15 copies of Sixes. And it's a little chintzy if you go with or say more of the cast is cylon.

Grendy - But I am sure there are people who watch everyone's moves. To see if they're showing signs.

Aaron - That's part of the mystery. The possibility.

Grendy - I would love if it was Khandyse McClure, (Dualla) personally.

Tahmoh - wow, really?

Aaron - yeah?

Grendy - There are some long takes, like PT Anderson does in Magnolia, or Boogie Nights, that linger on her. And you see her thinking. There's a scene in the head with Gaeta that might be telling… man, if she's a cylon. I told my brother, if I am right about this thing…then man, you owe me something.

Tahmoh - Well the show does go in unexpected ways. The show is so awesome, it's so unpredictable.

Aaron - The audience nowadays is so much more sophisticated.

Tahmoh - I have one coming up now that I am just dying to work on. I want something juicy.

Grendy - Is it a Helo-centric storyline?

Tahmoh - It is.

Grendy - I'd like to bring up something about the show's storylines that you're not going to see elsewhere, (by this I mean that other shows would not tackle this topic) and it's not pleasant. The storyline where Grace's character was attacked and raped….a friend of mine finally saw that episode…and frankly her first sexual experience was being raped, and she saw that episode… (before I can even finish Aaron and Tahmoh have looks of horror and shock on their faces and Aaron says "oh my fucking god" …{this puts both of them in the - these guys are real human, feeling, people, so it's a sure bet they're not from Hollywood-category}…and that episode just wrecked her. And she said 'Goddamn… that show. And she thought it was really well done. How it was handled. The empathy, the class in which it was handled. If you see someone in that situation, that's how you react, if you're human. Whether you're in love with the person or not. Now I knew this about her, but it's not at my forebrain all the time… but to have her say that made me stop and think… god, yeah… I can only imagine that there were thousands of women and men who saw that…

Aaron - There are women who don't watch the show anymore. Because they were so horrified by that. It's real life. I am sorry, but…

(at this point, since we've somewhat referenced Abu Ghrab, I apologized as an American for our current administration. This led into a very off topic conversation about the current Canadian Prime Minister and how he's a conservative…)

Tahmoh - More importantly… when that scene was happening, is it rape if it's a cylon?

Grendy - Yeah, where do you draw that line for your enemies?

Tahmoh - And she's talking to Apollo (actually, it was Adama) and she says basically, "What, it doesn't count as rape, because I am a cylon'? These parallels are obvious to what is happening today. We have a lot of separatism in religion and politics in the world.

Grendy - I am with ya on that one…

Tahmoh - It's sad. The fact is that so much of the west is ethnocentric.

Grendy - (somewhat sarcastically) Why should they care about other cultures, when they've conquered them all and made them assume their McDonalds and Starbucks cultures and ways of life? (And then here was digression about Dr. Joseph Lowery and how I'd met him recently, and his lambasting of Bush at Coretta Scott King's funeral and more drinks were ordered.)

Aaron - ...and how often are you going to have dialog with the president? In Canada you have to show up to the parliament and take heat from the other side. The liberals have lost hundreds of millions of dollars in scandals and we could not, in good conscience vote for them again. (Tahmoh's father was a member of a leftist party in Canada) Just so we know, it is a minority, right?

Grendy - huh?

Tahmoh - A minority government...

Grendy - oh yeah. no one I know voted for that guy.

Tahmoh - He had all the money

Grendy - and frankly, they (democrats) didn't present a viable enough candidate last time. saying "I am not George Bush" just isn't enough.

Tahmoh - and wavering on topics as well.

Grendy - if bobby Kennedy was still alive he could have walked right into the presidency...

Tahmoh - yeah, for sure.

Grendy - okay, sorry for the digression. Now, if it's okay, I'd like to talk about you some more. (they smile)

Grendy - Aaron, do you think, as a person or a character that Tyrol took up with Callie because it was "easy"? It's not having to having to deal with the grief over Sharon v.1, and she's just 'there' you know?

Aaron - I think that Tyrol has a genuine affection for her. He always has. it's just been more brotherly.

Grendy - but that's creepy if you marry her.

Aaron - I still think it's a little creepy

Grendy - I mean, we're in the South and all right now...

Aaron - But, no, the Chief is past Sharon . in as much as you can be. you carry that around the rest of your life. but you're not ...it's not in the forefront of your mind. yeah. it's as over as it's gonna be.

Grendy - well, it could make for compelling television (I then have an aside to Tahmoh, who's giving directions to someone on the phone. "We're in the Hilton, at Trader Vic's." See, I told you I went drinking with these guys!) ...but to watch you pine every week would get boring. with such as "Oh, I am sad, I am angry..."

Aaron - oh god yeah. we need to get off the Sharon story. there are shows that do that kind of stuff, year after year.

Grendy - and it becomes a mockery of the original story.

Aaron - so I am glad that they got off it. I am glad.

Grendy - how was filming the Kobol stuff? it looked cold and crappy.

Aaron - that was a lot of fun. April in Vancouver . high 60's, 70's. we were in the rainforest, beautiful. wardrobe takes very good care of us when we need it. I remember it raining but it wasn't miserable.

Grendy - must have been nice to be 'off the deck' and out of the studio.

Aaron - it is nice to be out sometimes.

Grendy - (in regards to spoilers. I said I don't want to know too much and how I dislike that crap).

Tahmoh - it's always surprising to me how many people do want to know.

Grendy (I mentioned television without pity's website, and how it gives you a 4-5 sentence synopsis of the show, and someone can read it and think they know what's going on).

Tahmoh - I hate that.

Grendy - you can't see the looks of longing. or see the violence.

Tahmoh - (adamant) - you can't appreciate the story. you know the ending. what's the purpose?

Grendy - Well, I do know the ending to the Bible, and according to that, it's all bad news. (this makes them both laugh)

Aaron - well it's a good thing that that's just a made up collection of stories and has no relevance in the world.

Grendy - I am with you on that. 'cause given my 'druthers, I'd rather sleep late on Sundays... Can you let me know, especially since we just discussed spoilers.... can you let me know if Helo and Sharon v.2 find out that the baby's still alive?

Tahmoh - do I know? Yes, I do know. and ya know, I think as an audience member it's probably a safe bet that I'll find out, right?

Grendy - yes. but then where does that character's loyalty lie?

Tahmoh - which character?

Grendy - Helo.

Tahmoh - well I think it's very clear he's a man of strong morals. integrity. values. once he knows his child's alive he'll do anything he can to save his child. Baby Hera ( p.s... her name is changed to Isis by Maya, her adoptive mother. and on an IMDB note, Maya is played be the same woman who is Deputy Lupo on Eureka on Sci-Fi as well) is an integral part of several storylines in season 3.

Grendy - as I would imagine. I think it's clever to have Roslin teaching at the begging of season 3 and keeping an eye on her right there.

Tahmoh - season 3 is a two part. two hours one week and then the 3rd hour the next.

Grendy - I just got a DVR this past march, and that's so handy. since I have a lot of jobs and work in theatre I don't have to freak out if I miss it.

Tahmoh - isn't it? I love mine too. Just got it 5 months ago. I have it loaded up. fights, mostly.

Grendy - like boxing? my roommate is a middleweight boxer.

Tahmoh - is he? yeah, boxing martial arts. I have the utmost respect for fighters and I love it. I love it (becoming really animated.) I have been into it for years

Grendy - what do you do?

Tahmoh - Muy-Thai mostly. for the last 6 or 7 years.

Grendy - that's badass. (this is where I flash to how tall this guy is compared to my 5'1 self and think: man, he could knock my block clean off my neck with a kick)

Tahmoh - I spar a lot and stuff, but hasn't gotten into the ring too much, just a couple of fights.

Grendy - So didja like Ong-Bak?

Tahmoh - Ong -Bak was incredible to me. The reason it was incredible is because I respect and love muy-thai so much. the amazing thing about that film is they show these ancient styles of fighting. they had, as you can see, no cables of nothing. (aside to Aaron, who doesn't seem to have seen the film. "this guy is the most amazing martial arts star that has ever been") the thing about it, they're showing it's traditional roots in there. those crocodile kicks...

Grendy - yeah, you're not going to see that in a competition. did you know he's got a new film coming out, The Protector?

Tahmoh - Yeah, I can't wait to see it. You'll never see those moves somewhere else. they are the moves that Thais used to use when they fought the Cambodians. the Burmese have a similar style, they don't have Muy-Thai though. this is stuff that they would use to the death. so a lot of the stuff they showed in Ong-Bak, those were the 'finishing moves'

Grendy - when I saw it about 2 years ago at BNAT it was the 2nd to last film we were seeing. we'd been watching movies since noon the say before and it was like 8 or 9 in the morning. you know, the final hurrah... and I went 'oh my god, my head is exploding!' when I/we watched it.

Tahmoh - to be honest with you, there's not a film that's ever compared to that, in terms of action/stunts. there's not a stuntman who can do that.

Grendy - there's your Jackie Chan's and stuff, but Jaa's so good...

Tahmoh - (interrupting ) yeah but there's not a guy who can hold a candle to him.

Grendy - yeah, and he's what, like 23?!?

Tahmoh - well, older now, that was done in 2003 in Thailand .

Grendy - at BNAT we sometimes see things that don't come out 'til way later. Like The Decent, for example. We saw that last December. Not too good if you're claustrophobic.

Tahmoh - I just saw that! Michael Trucco (Anders) is like 'you gotta see this!'

A brief explanation to Aaron about the film follows, ending with…

Grendy - bad things happen...

Tahmoh - oh yeah, bad things happen.

Grendy - is Tyrol going to be leading the rebellion, like a 5th Columnist? (reminding all of you that this was done first weekend of September, and I am in fact, not an idiot to ask this a week after the season premier) Or is it going to be Tigh?

Aaron - I would say Tigh is the head, and Anders and Tyrol are sort of the right-hand men.

Grendy - Do you think if the events on New Caprica get resolved that Tyrol would be content going back to being 'just the chief' after leading the union and any events that follow?

Aaron - umm, I think if everybody gets off the planet, that you have to take up your former post. it's the military. and if you're on the ship, you might as well fix planes, since that's what you're good at.

Grendy - were you personally upset that they blew up your nice ship like 2 episodes after you created it? (this is a reference to the episode titled: Phoenix in which Chief Tyrol starts building a stealth-ship and is eventually helped by many of the crew, only to have it lost in the next episode when Apollo uses it to bomb the Resurrection Ship and it's blown out from under him)

Aaron - (simply) YEP.

Grendy - I mean, you just damn built that thing!

Aaron - I know. I know (slightly grouchy about it) it took me six days to build that fucking thing (laughs) Yeah. Yeah, although it's a really interesting story, and I really liked that episode where it got built and all... it was pretty sweet. it went out with a bang and it was used well, so I'll take it.

Grendy - I was wondering if he felt bad about that...

Grendy - in the scene in which you two had to deal with Grace's character getting attacked, was that especially hard to film? Because I would imagine it would be difficult to do take after take on it...

Aaron - what you saw, what ended up I in the show, is such an infinitesimal part of it. they shot the rape all the way to the end. and so you've got Grace getting hammered by this guy, and taking it and taking it...

Grendy - it must have been horrible to watch

Tahmoh - oh yes.

Aaron - and kudos to her she did a wonderful job with it. she's a wonderful actress and wonderful person . so yeah, any time you're dealing with heavy deep and real stuff it's hard.

Tahmoh - I mean, we're sitting there listening to it. we're there in the hall, waiting for our cue. every take. we're listening to it start, and progress...

Aaron - (interrupting) ... you wanted to go in before your cue to stop it. you really wanted to beat those actors. it was just wrong. We really wanted to fight them.

Grendy - yeah...

Aaron - it was really hard to shoot. and that's just us talking. and what Grace went through, all for the sake of truth. Like Tahmoh said before, this is what happens in life. and we have to show it sometimes.

Tahmoh - On Battlestar we're not going to give you a fluffy, sugar coated parallel. at all. when we do stuff like that it's the raw deal.

Grendy - in talking with Kate about the abortion storyline... (see previous interviews with Kate Vernon and Richard Hatch in AICN archives)

Tahmoh - how those choices are made...Kids should not be watching this show.

Grendy - you're to going to see this kind of content on NBC (parent company of Sci-Fi Channel)...

Tahmoh - oh absolutely. they wouldn't do it.

Grendy - I think it's excellent. on shows were a girl doest get pregnant she always magically miscarries before she can/had to make a choice. I think it's great that your writers, and the people who defend them get these shows on.

Grendy - the chief's suicidal thoughts, and the beating of Callie, do you think that jives, with where he was going as a character? or did you feel that it was out of left field? Because you didn't see the build up to that as an audience member.

Aaron - no, you didn't see the build- up. And I said the same thing! I called them (I assume he means the show runners or Ron Moore) and I said: where the hell does this come from? And they said: he's been having nightmares and sleepwalking. And so.. I kind of like it. You don't see people in life, people you know in life… I mean you read about stuff like: the guy next door murdered his wife and family and hangs himself and everyone goes 'he was the nicest man in the world, a nice family'. So, it was ah… interesting. Because you see him at work all the time. but you never get to see him when he's off work. So obviously the chief's been dealing with a whole bunch of shit. And the preceding episodes I've had maybe one line here or there. So it makes you go, it makes the audience think… if you don't see someone for a while, who knows what they're up to? I liked the episode.

Grendy - I remember my first reaction to that was: where did that come from? And then I thought about it. And it's okay that we didn't see that happening like 4 episodes of him waking up in a cold a sweat every night, for like 30 seconds at a time. Just have him finally freak out 4 episodes down that road. That would have been sloppy writing, to me.

Aaron - Yeah, I agree.

Grendy - how is working with Dean Stockwell? I mean he's been in everything.

Aaron - he's been in 150 films. I said to him, you've been doing this a long time. He said: there are 4 people on the planet who've been doing this as long as me, Me, Mickey Rooney, Elizabeth Taylor and Robert Blake. and I said: that's pretty good company. Two of those people are insane.

Grendy - and/or should be in jail!

Aaron - he laughed. And then he said "Who's insane?" I mean you can tell by watching him he's been around.

Grendy - I remember watching The Boy With Green Hair when I was a kid with him in it, on TV…

Aaron - he's a wonderful actor and person. He knows his lines. It was very cool to sit across from him and work.

Tahmoh - I am glad you said that. When I first met him. He had this huge monolog written for him. A really nice piece of writing. And he did it. First take. And Michael's like… (Michael Rymer, series' in-house director) (digressing a bit) …Michael's an amazing director. He's probably the reason the show's been so successful. And good as it is, he's devolved such a relationship with it over the years now that's great. And Michael… he likes to kill it too. We' get like a thousand takes done, right? You know, he's just that strict. And Dean hit it on the first take and it was like bang-on. He didn't even know what to say to him. he had no idea. he said 'Do you want to try something different. 'cause that was perfect.'

Grendy - will he make an appearances this season?

Aaron - he's back in seasons 3 for sure. (of course, reading this now, we all know what a rat-frackin'-bastard he is) he's very important.

Grendy - I am glad that he's willing to do another sci-fi show.

Tahmoh - he loves it. loves the show.

Grendy - he's got a fan-base from Quantum Leap that may being new people to the show's audience. speaking of other stuff... I would love to know and confirm that Eddie Olmos is not as full of gravitas as he is on the show. that maybe he smiles once in a while?

Tahmoh - oh! he does.

Aaron - as soon as you yell cut he's giggling, and poking your belly. (yep, this is the same mental picture I am sure we all have of Tyrol and Adama's interactions. though, maybe in yours you don't here obsequious porn-like music in the background. Kidding!)

Grendy - because he's got such a stately bearing an all.

Aaron - as soon as you yell auction, he's there. it's like me, the chief's always walking around scowling and pissed off. seemingly. he's a goofball off-camera.

Grendy - any good practical jokers amongst the cast/crew?

Aaron - not really. no one really does that. we all have fun, it's certainly not what the cast of Stargate SG1 does, or other shows I've been on. (which Aaron was on previously) like someone will Vaseline all the furniture in someone else's trailer. that kind of stuff. or to pour liquid heat into costumes.

Tahmoh - we like to laugh a lot. sometimes we're dealing with really heavy scenes. I remember being younger and being on set with older actors and being so nervous, so wound up that I couldn't enjoy it. do every take. do it right. the first time I got onto Cold Squad I saw Matt Benning (on BSG he plays Doril) and he's very tough and talented. and he's dealing with a pedophilia story, and it's really heavy... and right in the middle of it they're making jokes in between takes. they've been working together for 4 years straight...

Grendy - ...they've got a rapport

Tahmoh - a great rapport. and I am going ' how do they do that, joke around?' and right up to action they'd be screwing around right up 'til the cameras went on. and you grow to realize that you can do that. you have to, that's how it works. for these serious scenes you know? you have to.

Grendy - do you think Helo will be fully trusted again?

Tahmoh - no. never. you're dealing with racism. prejudice. history and nature. there's a certain animosity there. he's never be trusted by certain individuals. but the fact is, those who know him, you know, will trust him. you get to see where he's coming from. the Helo Sharon story is very much Romeo and Juliet.

Grendy - does Grace get to come out of the cage in this season? I mean I am sure it's boring shooting in there all the time.

Tahmoh - uh. yeah. she does. Definitely. here's a little spoiler. it's not much of one. you actually get to see some tender moments with Sharon and I. I really fought for them. it got to the point where you ... I actually said to David Eick, at the end of last season that you've got to show why they're together. what actually keeps them together.

Grendy - ... it has to be more then the baby.

Tahmoh - more then just screaming and yelling. and more then the baby. always fighting for each other's lives you know. so this year. it's great. I think everyone's going to be really happy. I mean, they love each other so much...

Grendy - Explaining in a book or on film it's really hard to show why these people are in love. It's like you meet and 30 minutes later you're in love.

Tahmoh - Exactly. You really have to show it.

Grendy - (When asked about Aaron's party-guy rep. he said he didn't know why he's gotten this. I mentioned that Canadians in general (those I've met) are the most beer-drinkinest, pot-smokingest people I've ever met).

Tahmoh - Its true. When hanging out with our American friend James the last two nights, we've been going out and getting annihilated. And he's all pissed, going ' fucking Canadians. I hate you. '

Aaron - He's testing me all day long with 'I hate you. I fucking hate you' and I respond with 'one more night buddy, one more and we're all done here.'

Grendy - Well, in the wintertime, all the Canadians do is drink beer, be funny and play hockey. We had no hockey (the year of woe as some of us call it)... my friend Liz equated no hockey to PMS. She was cranky and moody and wanted to hit things all the time. I know we 'only' have the thrashers...

Aaron - They're a great team

Grendy - In Florida, in April I took time out from visiting my 103 year old grandmother to visit the Stanley Cup when it was on display.